65 replies to this topic

[hayabusa]

bullseye_maco, on 05 January 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

You did two errors, maybe three. I admit to have done these errors, too at a certain time.

First error: Taking her even if she was evidently high as a kite, i.e. on yaba. You should have sent her away.

Oh come on, if you turned away every lb that is high you would never get a single one in your room.

[sjsharks]

hayabusa, on 02 February 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

1) Taking a LB from a bar is no guarentee of anything. Anyone here ever tried complaining to a mamasan about a lb?



2) Try and consider what posting a warning like this can do to a ladyboy. Thailand is a 3rd world country and lb's are at the very bottom of the social scale with very very limited opertunities in life. You really are kicking someone who doesnt need it and cant fight back. Also, who's to say the OP isnt exagerating or making it all up?

Yes your right I could be making it all up or exaggerating the truth. Ask yourself why would I waste my time doing this? I would not have posted about her if the sex had been ordinary because that can be a simple chemistry thing but when I get threatened I consider it worth letting others know about.

This forum is about helping like minded people with the good and the bad about the ladyboy scene.

Edited by sjsharks, 02 February 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[mardhi]

hayabusa, on 02 February 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

1) Taking a LB from a bar is no guarentee of anything. Anyone here ever tried complaining to a mamasan about a lb?



2) Try and consider what posting a warning like this can do to a ladyboy. Thailand is a 3rd world country and lb's are at the very bottom of the social scale with very very limited opertunities in life. You really are kicking someone who doesnt need it and cant fight back. Also, who's to say the OP isnt exagerating or making it all up?

I have known SJS for about 6 years - I very much doubt he would make it up, or even if he could be bothered to make it up.

In hindsight - its easy to see the warning signs and the girl had probably had a tiring night, had a ST and then went and blew it some ice or whatever to help her relax and put the night behind her. From the OP standpoint, he probably regrets the encounter and realises that in hindsight, it probably could have ended up exactly the way it did - heck we have all done it, had a few beers and the adrenelin starts rushing etc etc - call up a girl and next day think to yourself - "that was not the smartest move I could have made" - I have done it plenty of times and I am sure many experienced guys have however often at that point your little buddy is making the decisions and not the brain.

However in answer to the question about bars, some do actually pay a lot of attention to this, however probably the majority don't care - just one anecdote - over the last 2 months the two highest earners for Guess Bar were fired, however not for customer related issues. Also in the last year, I cannot think of one example of such an incident taking place with staff from Guess Bar. It has happened and those girls tend to be new starters and the assumption is that mostly the customer is presumed correct. Many then get fired on the spot. The number one reason for girls being taken out is drug & mental position related. Taking into account, the mental state of some of these kids and the customer base for some part - It is quite an impressive achievement that 99% of the time there is never any issue. Some guys may baulk at the financial expectations of Guess Girls, but they are trained to deliver on what they agree to do without any drama. Conversley their is a flip side and some customers have been banned for trying to get girls to do things they have not agreed to do or wanted to do. One guy is on a watch list for drugging a member of staff - sometimes its the customers who are as much to blame if their is an issue, but in this case, knwoing SJS - I think he will have portrayed a fair and accurate summary of the situation.

Edited by mardhi, 03 February 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[silentmoebius]

@ Hayabusa, thanks for getting the situation and mentioning the same point..

@ sjsharks, as mentioned in my post, I am not taking sides here, as I stated.. I had not been the one telling her about this post, because I knew her only by the name she had on facebook and the name Pancake. I have no account on Thaifriendly and did hear the name Alexandra the first time, as she send the the link to me. She told me a week ago she had the feeling someone was posting something bad about her in a forum and actualy asked me to look if I could find something, to let her now. I did not come over your post!!!
I have to say, to the guy who did let her know, "well done". She had a right to know.

This forum is open to the general public and is not just limited on us who are posting things.. I DID NOT HARM ANY FORUM RULES.. And I can not imagine that there is one forbidding to let someone know that there is a warning written somewher about him or herself..

I do not say what happend between the two of you is a nice thing, neither I say what she might did, is good.. When she threatend you, its not ok!!!

But!! As mentioned in my last post, You could have gone the offical way, you could have booked her earlier or waited until the next night, until she would have been up to an escort. Of cores she could have denied you the escort at this late hour.

There had just been a few things going wrong.. Some of the girls are always online in some site through there smartphones. In Facebook or other Dating or Msg provider.. But to be online dose not mean there are available 24/7 though it might seems this way sometimes.. These girls are no piece of meat!! They are human beings with all there strainghs and weaknesses.. To sit in a Bar every night waiting for customers can be tiering I am sure..

If you had been to Thailand alot of times, and had also been living there for a time, You should know about there lifestandard, there situation. Where poor people get their Legs or arms cut of from gangs, so they can crawl around in Sukumviet to beg for money, where mothers have to sleep with there little ones on the street to do the same.. I had just been there for three times now, but I have seen alot already. Alot, we sometimes deny to see when we do our little funtrips..

As mentioned, We just see the sugur on top of our piece of cake, but have no idea which integrents the cake consists of..

I believe you when you say, she did threaten you, THAT is not ok, but be honest, did you reply to those threats? Did you provoke continuety to the things she threatend you with? There are alot of technical opportunities to blook her on your mobile, your Email and Thaifriendly. I am sure she would have stoped at some point, because she would have seen that it brings her nowhere.. You are sitting in the States, why should you have bothered? There would have been no way she would have been appearing at your front door. So next time just ignore the girl.. Its as simple as that.. The threat with the HIV, you make continously a test, so you would have something in your hands if someone asks..

As mentioned in my last post.. I just spoke up for someone who could not defend herself! I do not tolerate threads, that is not good, but threads are just as strong, as they frighten you.. so If it dose not effect you, don't care about it..

You americans made up a word for the thing you do here, it is "Mobbing" talking behind the back of someone! It is not a fair thing to do, dispising the bad thinks she might did.. Imagine there would be someone, willing to post something bad on your hometown Pinwall or forum, and you would be rejectet from your friends, employers and society..

Edited by silentmoebius, 03 February 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[transgirls]

silentmoebius, how many times have you been in Thailand and how many Thai LBs did you shag?

Quote

I have to say, to the guy who did let her know, "well done". She had a right to know.

Since the post was in the public area, I concur that telling her about it is not wrong. The story would be totally different though if the post had been in the advanced area.

I think that indeed she has the right to know what is published publicly about her, but SJS also has the right to post his experience.

Pancake is not a private person, but as a prostitute, she's a person who provides a service to the public. This is a public professional activity, and the clients have the right to criticize/comment about it.

Quote

These girls are no piece of meat!

Sorry, they are, they made it their job.
And the girls are also free to decide with what customers they want to go, and they can also just go home and sleep.

Quote

To sit in a Bar every night waiting for customers can be tiering I am sure..

yes, their job is not an easy one.
BUT: there are many girls who can remain even-tempered and honest even when they have a bad day, and there obviously are other girls who cannot.
I don't see why the girls of the second category (excuse the joke) should be able to threaten customers and get away with it without facing any consequences. It puts all LBs in a bad light, same as those who attack tourists on beach road.

The forums are the only way for customers to voice their opinion, and I think it is a good deterrent against abusive behavior or worse.

Of course, there are also scumbags who will abuse their power and threaten the girls with negative forum posts if they don't get free sex. I have heard rumors about well-known forum members doing that, I'd very much like to get proof one day, because that is the worst sort of person.

Edited by transgirls, 04 February 2012 - 12:45 AM.

[sjsharks]

I hope other BM's take this for what it is. A warning to look out. Does not mean you will not have a good time with her but just make an informed decision.

Some people read much more into this than is deserved.

[sjsharks]

silentmoebius, on 03 February 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

You americans made up a word for the thing you do here, it is "Mobbing" talking behind the back of someone! It is not a fair thing to do, dispising the bad thinks she might did.. Imagine there would be someone, willing to post something bad on your hometown Pinwall or forum, and you would be rejectet from your friends, employers and society..

By the way I am not American.

Your analogy is not even close to being relevant but if it makes you feel good to try an be her saviour good luck to you.

[cheyenne]

Sorry, but i have to interject here folks.

Silentmobius you sound like a nice guy who just got a soul. Everybody knows the lives of thai people are hard. However, I work with lots of thai people and live with a ladyboy who is my second long term relationship here. I have also spent a lot of time amongst ladyboys who work as prostitutes. Two years ago barfining them but for the most part having them as girlfriends or as friends.

Most ladyboy prostitutes do the job because of the enormous rewards they can get in comparison not only to life in Isaan but also the life of an uneducated thai in Bangkok. They get very lazy, sleep all day and fucking even one customer a night is more money than they can earn anywhere else. Its also easy if they spend all their money or want a new phone, they can suit themselves when they work especially if they are freelance. They are economic victims but aren't we all.

Many, many ladyboys get into drugs because some farang insisted they smoke ice in the room and they wanted the customer. I have heard this so many times I believe it, and I have had the misfortune of seeing emails from customers demanding the world including sharing drugs etc.

You cannot find a ladyboy pro who does not use except for some rare exceptions. It does not matter that they work in a bar or not and I can tell you that EVERY bar's ladyboys smoke ice every day. I could name names of the favourite darlings of this forum and tell you how much they smoke, usually with no problem to customers.

As far as getting redress for crimes by visiting the bar they work . . . the only place that will happen is Guess bar because its farang owned as most of you know. Someone was stabbed by a ladyboy from Casanova. They did nothing.

You made a mistake to pay that ladyboy Alex, you should have told her NO. If she threatened you physically you should have defended yourself vigourously. If a ladyboy wants to behave like a man . . .there are consequences. I do not condone guys that threaten 'good' ladyboys and have interceded on their behalf a few times, including Yoyo's. Every time some farang caves in to a strident ladyboy means they will do it again.

Some people are thieves, liars and violent drug users, including ladyboys regardless of their humble beginnings and 'poverty' there is no excuse for what either of the girls did. The only time I ever had a problem was when i took Aum and Cynthia together from Cascades. I had said i would pay 2,000 baht for them both and they agreed. After 2 hours of shagging they asked to go even though I had arranged LT with them. I said Ok if you really want to go, it's ok. I gave them a 1000 baht each and they were stunned . . . . 'you say 2000 each!' I told them i had not said that. They were not rude or offensive rather, pained and disappointed but Aum said, 'Ok, not make a problem, is Ok' at which point I gave them another 500 baht each and they left. Had they been abusive they would have got nothing except a kick up the ass.

Stealing is 'so' against thai culture that most people cannot believe that a ladyboy would steal from the room, thats how low those individuals have sunk.
Yoyo is a good friend of my ex and i have to tell you, she did not trust her. keep your gear locked up if tou take her I promise you she is trouble and is tough. She gets big gambling debts and has to make money quick. She is well connected because many people are scared of her. I suggest avoiding her, but up to you. she has a quick tongue and takes customers away from many ladyboys outside Nana and they are scared of her.



As far as them having 'backup' to come and get you its usually jok taa . . . a story. however there was a time when the guy they called was me. I have been asked to go to a hotel room and sort out a farang problem by two ladyboys. Both times the farang was in the wrong and both times they paid up with little drama. So i do not always take the part of farangs in my opinions or actions but the ladyboys you mentioned were completely out of line . . come on, we innately know what's wrong and what's right don't we? Stealing and lying are just wrong. Prostitution? A more complicated issue there has never been especially in Thailand!

[sjsharks]

cheyenne, on 04 February 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

As far as them having 'backup' to come and get you its usually jok taa . . . a story. however there was a time when the guy they called was me. I have been asked to go to a hotel room and sort out a farang problem by two ladyboys. Both times the farang was in the wrong and both times they paid up with little drama. So i do not always take the part of farangs in my opinions or actions but the ladyboys you mentioned were completely out of line . . come on, we innately know what's wrong and what's right don't we? Stealing and lying are just wrong. Prostitution? A more complicated issue there has never been especially in Thailand!

I paid her the other 1000 because I was tired and could not be bothered. I often stand my ground when it comes to ladyboys or girls renegotiating the fee or not delivering on what was promised. However this cannot be considered a rule that should always be followed and you need to calculate the risk involved in doing so. Every situation is different so I don't think telling people to hold firm si the right approach.

Going to the hotel of a farang you doing know to protect a ladyboy is just madness in my opinion why would you do that?

Edited by sjsharks, 04 February 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[silentmoebius]

@ Transgirls, I have to admid, I am in some points with you. Of corse, people should know when there are Lbs which are rude, vilont and have a bad attitude. I am happy when am warned about this of cores..

Though in the piece of meat point I dissagree. I am sure you have your expierience as well. You are saying, they become prostitutes by coice, in this point I am with Cheyenne..

@ sjsharks, I am not so sure if you get my point.. I am just speaking up for someone who can not do so herself.. For me thinking you are american, I have to appoligize though.. I just know one San Jose in Kalifornien, but I have to admit I had a window backseat in Georgraphy.. If I offended you with this guess, I am sorry..

@ Cheyenne, I have to say, I like your post!! It is clear, neutral and over all Fair..

@ sjsharks, You did get me wrong, and I think you might not really understand what I am trying to say.. I tried to discuss the WHY.. Cheyenne got it and added a few points and answered some of the questions, explained a little about the WHY..

@Cheyenne Thx for that..

Of cores its not ok to be threatened..

It is always ok to post a line about expirience, but as much as it starts to sound, as you just mentioned in your last post, you gave her the 1000 more, because you where tiered and did not want to bother.. Right?

- So, I have to ask! Was it realy soo necessary to post such a big WARNING tag here encoriging others to post a picture?
- Would it not have been enough to post your expirience?

It just seams you underestimated the effect you provoked with this warning..

All I wanted is to bring a new side to the discussion, what I managed to do.. I think the thing between you and Pancake had just been a big misunderstanding and did get out of hand.. She told me the story out of her point of view and as it sounds, it had been a big misunderstanding..

To avoid that, just do as I adviced in the first post I did.. Book the girl through an agency or bar. Negotiate the price, pay in advance and treat the girl with respect and dignety... Then you will have NO problems and might get more then what you paid for..

@ Cheyenne.. The drugs are realy an issue.. I don't take any and I don't like when the girl I book through an agency is drugged up to the hairtips.. I have my expirience with on of the ladies you mentioned.. But I will not post a name and put a warning tag on her, because she did not give me any troubble.. I think you know who I am talking about..

Sometimes when a girl gets a call from the agency for an escort she never knows what to expect and I think they also dope themself up to be able to beare the guys, they have the escort with..

It's tough to read that in many caces Farangs are responcible for the consumption and/or familyrization with it..

Thx for your post Cheyenne

Edited by silentmoebius, 05 February 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[sjsharks]

silentmoebius, on 05 February 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

To avoid that, just do as I adviced in the first post I did.. Book the girl through an agency or bar. Negotiate the price, pay in advance and treat the girl with respect and dignety... Then you will have NO problems and might get more then what you paid for..

OK so you just made it obvious you have never been to Thailand by this statement. Booking through and agency or bar makes no difference at all. The mamasans don't care and most of the owners don't care either except for maybe a minority of farang owners.

I treat all the girls with respect and dignity that I spend time with until they give me a reason not to like threatening me.

Yes I gave her the 1000 extra because I could not be bothered dealing with that situation at the time and I weighed up my options and decided that was the best course of action at the time. Not because she deserved but it or because she threatened me but because I was tired and really not in the mood.

[cheyenne]

hi,

sure, its your choice if you decide to pay the extra I only suggest that this approach may encourage behaviour of the same kind??
Agencies won't guarantee results or good behaviour. Often the girls do it on the off chance they make a bit more cash but they are the same girls you can get for 1000 baht outside Nana. I promise you, thats true.

The agencies accept NO responsibility for what happens in the room because prostitution is illegal here. You pay them ONLY for the girls COMPANY not for SEX! Therefore what happens between you and a girl is NONE of their affair (as far as they are concerned) They cannot admit to knowing you had sex for money and neither therefore can they accept any kind of liability.

There is nothing to protect YOU or the GIRLS except your and their own wits unfortunately.

I went to hotel rooms to help people out because they asked for my help in a situation they did not want to handle alone. Simple, maybe foolish but one lives and learns.

[sjsharks]

Well thanks everyone for your opinions and comments on this. I think my opinion is clear so I will now let sleeping dogs lie on this one.

Heed my warning or not as they say in Thailand UP TO YOU!

[transgirls]

silentmoebius, on 05 February 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

@ Transgirls, I have to admid, I am in some points with you. Of corse, people should know when there are Lbs which are rude, vilont and have a bad attitude. I am happy when am warned about this of cores..

Though in the piece of meat point I dissagree. I am sure you have your expierience as well. You are saying, they become prostitutes by coice, in this point I am with Cheyenne..

Well, Cheyenne essentially says the same: these girls are prostitutes by choice. Economic "victims" yes, but it is still their choice. I know LBs who do not work as prostitutes.
Some work hard for 6k a month + tips as service staff in restaurants, or for 10k a month in a company, or 14k a month as a supervisor.
There are plenty of ladyboys who are not prostitutes.

[silentmoebius]

@ Transgirls, Well you are right! it is there choice. We agree to the point, they are Economic *Victims*.. The girls which are working as Service staff in a restaurant or hotel earn my respect for that. Working very hard every day to get along with the little pay..

Prostitutes go the easier way.. In this point I agree.. It is everywhere the same.. Some of them try it.. Then they see how much money they can make with it.. Keep in mind, Thais have a very tight relationship to ther Family, though most of them don't know and in some caces don't care where the money comes from, many are depending on it. The children take care of the family. That is the way it is..

Hayabusa said it right, these girls come from the lower scale of the sairway.. Many of them are intelegent and would like to go to university to study, to have a better life for themselfs and there families.. But then there is the moneything again.. As long as the girls don't manage to hold on to the money they earn, to save it and to imvest it into the future, they are just stuck, grow older and in the end they lost all opportunities and chances..

Yes there are lbs which do work for low wages, 6000 Bhat up.. But lets be honest.. What decission would we make when we would have the choice...

6000THB working the A** up like walking, lifting and pleasing torists, which barly pay tips

or

Jumping over the shadow, pleasing guys, and earning in an optimum cace up to 30000-40000THB? Don't forget, in some caces they find a farang who is willing to take care of them, paying some education and taking them out of this envirement..

It is easy to say it was their decission.. I know, I could not work for 6000THB in Bkk pay a room and send half of the money back home... Of cores other Thai girls do this, but you have also to see what there life is like.. Tough very Tough..

Well for now, I am closing this forum for myself, because I think I have said everything from my point of view.. I just wanted to speak up, and ask a few questions and I think I did open up some thoughts...

Prostitution is a dirty and tough buisness, just because these girls do it, dose not mean they like to do it and want to do it forever..

Education is the key to a better life..

So long..

[pariscontact]

After some hesitation, i called Alexandra at 2 am. I went to see her. There was chemistry. Right away, i felt it. It just felt right being with her. I found her sane, focused, intelligent, professional, nice, and so on. Frankly, my best LB experience to date.

[pariscontact]

PS: I should add that I have had only about a dozen LB experiences (hence the 'Newbie' status...)

[hanz]

sjsharks, on 05 February 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Well thanks everyone for your opinions and comments on this. I think my opinion is clear so I will now let sleeping dogs lie on this one.

Heed my warning or not as they say in Thailand UP TO YOU!

for what it's worth...I'm with you on paying the extra 30 bucks. Let the guys who live there make a stand over a measley 30 bucks..I'm on holiday and I ain't gonna fuck it up over 30 bucks.

[bkkldby]

my observaton over the past 24 years spent in-country is that the greater percentage of girls (and LBs, i draw no distinction) in P4P go to work everyday, do their job, and go home with no drama, or a desire to create some. life is complicated and tough enough, why cultivate more problems?

however, there does exist a small group who are vicious, violent, unreasonable, uncontrolabble, threatening, thieving, and unladylike (is that an oxymoron). where else are we to find out about these individuals if not here? what better purpose does this foruim serve? as it is in most matters, take the good with the bad.

relative to what prompted this topic in the first place, my conversatinal experiences with this particular POI when she worked at Cascades and at Temptations have always been so off-putting that i never barfined her or bought her a drink. i just had a sense from talking to her that she would be overbearing, unreasonable, and too much trouble. now my assumption has been validated by a BM with good cred.

thanks.

BTW: i got a really good laugh out of the remarks about escorts being less hassle because they are connected to an "agency". those websites are simply fronts for pimps who use the sites as a buffer between us and them. if there is anyone to be warry of and disdain in the P4P its these pr*cks IMO. further, the girls immeadiately give their contact info to the customers to avoid further relatinship with the site, and also to get more money as they do not have to continue giving a cut to the pimp who runs the site. so not much of any kind of relationship exists other than the two participants using each other for personal gain and then ditching them when it becomes expedient.

IMO bars and mamasans are not much different in regard to assitance. even a "valued" and long-time customer with a history of spending a lot of money on their fun will recieve not much more than lip service when asking for help. after all, most girls who are into the bullsh*t of scamming and ripping off punters have been mentored and coached by the mamasan and they split the ill-gotten gains. those who refuse to enter into such a relatinship with a mamasan may often be an outcast who is tolerated because they get a fair number of lady's drinks and BFs in amonth. for a bar manager or mamasan to help a punter is akin to shooting themselves in the foot if you ask me. the girls see it as a sign of weakness so a mamasan must be careful who they extend and legitmate courtesies to. and if you do seem to be getting somewhere with a complaint, chalk it up to theatrics as it will be little more than a faint show of concern that goes nowhere and yields no tangible result.

one final comment is that i know that drug use is rampant in P4P, but the abuse of substances is not neccesarriily an indicator of someone who will give you trouble. sure, it can be something that can be attributted to a person being difficult, but not always. some of the worst experineces i have had with girls, and with other punters for that matter, is the age old problem of alcohol abuse. in my experience drugs amplify who a person already is. so if they were a piece of work to begin with, they just simply get worse.

but this is all just one person's opinion.

[transgirls]

bkkldby, on 08 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

BTW: i got a really good laugh out of the remarks about escorts being less hassle because they are connected to an "agency". those websites are simply fronts for pimps who use the sites as a buffer between us and them. if there is anyone to be warry of and disdain in the P4P its these pr*cks IMO. further, the girls immeadiately give their contact info to the customers to avoid further relatinship with the site, and also to get more money as they do not have to continue giving a cut to the pimp who runs the site. so not much of any kind of relationship exists other than the two participants using each other for personal gain and then ditching them when it becomes expedient.

There are certainly plenty of reasons and bad examples why pimps have a bad name.

But there are a few reputable agencies that have a good name and have been working a long time already.

Using a reputable agency has a number of advantages for VIP type clientele, but for the average punter it's not worth the money.

I know about the business in Europe, because a friend runs an agency in Switzerland, it's legit, this business being legal there. And he always looks perfectly after his VIP clientele paying up to 800 USD per hour, and often sending escorts to international assignments.